The HR Guide to Recruitment<\/a>, for more expert advice on how to source top talent and find great candidates. For even further support, just reach out to one of our Employee Engagement Consultants.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n<\/p>\n\n\n\n
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Yasmine Shemesh (YS):<\/em><\/strong> Welcome back to Outback Talks: The Employee Engagement Podcast. This podcast is produced by Outback Team Building & Training, a leading team building, training and consulting provider for organizations across North America. I\u2019m your host, Yasmine Shemesh, on today\u2019s show we have a very special guest joining us from the professional social network LinkedIn. Bobby Brenman is the Group Product Marketing Manager looking after the Talent Portfolio at LinkedIn. He sat down with me to dive deep into the world of recruitment and talking, in particular, about the best practices for effectively scouting out great candidates.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me, again, Bobby. How\u2019s your day going so far?<\/em><\/p>\nBobby Brenman (BB):<\/em><\/strong> Excellent. Excited to chat with you today and get into some of these details.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> Awesome, awesome, yes, me too! Alright, well, first of all, I know that you work at the Talent Divisions department at LinkedIn. So, can you just tell me a little bit more about what that department does and what your role is?<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> Yeah, of course. So, hopefully your listeners are familiar with LinkedIn. With over 590 million members in over 200 countries, LinkedIn is the largest professional network on the internet. And our aim always, as we think about what we do here in LinkedIn, is to connect the world\u2019s professionals to make them more productive and successful. As a part of that, in this area that I focus on within our business, is really focused on, \u201chow do we help organizations develop winning teams?\u201d<\/em><\/p>\nSo, when we think about organizations, when we think about our talent solutions broadly, we\u2019re really thinking about: how do we help organizations with their planning strategies, so how they can plan to build that team? How they hire the team effectively? And then how do they continue to develop that team? Which is, again one of the reasons I was excited to chat with you because I know you guys do a lot of work in this area. It\u2019s obviously super important to us as we think about the hiring stage and then the post-hiring stage, as well. <\/em><\/p>\nAnd then my role within LinkedIn, I\u2019m a Group Product Marketing Manager here looking after our Talent Portfolio. So, it gives me a great opportunity to spend a lot of time with our customers, understanding what their needs are, understanding what their best practices are, talking about our solutions, as well as working in partnership with our product teams in terms of what\u2019s the latest and greatest from a technology perspective as we deliver those solutions to our customers and think about the road map going forward.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> Yeah and knowing that you have some experience in marketing is something that I want to dive in to a little bit as well, because I feel like HR and marketing have a very unique connection. But, let\u2019s talk about recruitment. So, when you have a position that you want to fill, one of the first steps is putting together that job posting. So, to start us off, do you have any really good tips on how to create a compelling job posting that will attract ideal candidates for a certain position?<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> For sure, yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head. Marketing and recruiting share a lot of similar traits and characteristics. And the same way as I, throughout my career, have thought about different marketing campaigns and different things like that, recruiting people for your organization is very much the same thing. So, as I talk with customers, we always say, \u201cstart with really researching what you\u2019re looking for.\u201d So, I think that understanding of the role, understanding of the ideal candidate that you are looking for, and really just having those insights to start the conversation, becomes super important as the foundation. <\/em><\/p>\nAnd then really think about what is that experience that you want to create for the candidate. We\u2019ve done a lot of research on this here at LinkedIn to really understand what the elements are of a job post. What are the elements that resonate with people? We actually just ran a study of, I think, over 400 or so members and really tried to understand what aspects jump out to them from a job post, what resonates most. And as you can imagine, a lot of the things that candidates are really looking for are the details of what they are actually going to do on the job. Things around the actual functional requirements, the actual salary and benefits, definitely, is top of mind for candidates. Really just getting to the point and understanding what\u2019s important to the candidate, I\u2019d say, is the biggest thing with job postings.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> It is sort of like you\u2019re advertising, right? Because you\u2019re trying to present what this thing is and, you know, entice people to want to buy into it.<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> Exactly right. I think it\u2019s one of the many steps within an organization thinking about their employer brand, or their talent brand. And while organizations may have a career page that highlights who they are \u2013 they may do direct outreach advertising to candidates to really make sure that candidates are aware of their company \u2013 the job posting is definitely something that candidates are looking at and are using to assess, you know, one, obviously, if they are fit for the role, but also to get to know the company. <\/em><\/p>\nWe do see from the research, though, that while some job postings people put a ton of information about the company and company\u2019s mission and all that, oftentimes candidates are really looking more for the detail of the job, of function and what it is, and then are going to other places, such as the career page or other sites, to be able then to learn more about the company. We talk about it as, you know, a multi-channel approach, right? Which is, again, language that comes from the marketing world, but really thinking about that way, where, you know, if you look at the candidate journey and the experience they\u2019re building on, there are multiple touch points that they\u2019re going to have as they engage with your company and get to know your company \u2013 but the job post is obviously a key part of that.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> So now, branching off on to what you were just saying about including a lot of information in the job posting, which a lot of companies tend to do, have you found it more effective in your experience to create something that\u2019s very highly detailed to narrow down that exact criteria? Or could sometimes less detailed posts attract a higher volume of applicant?<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> For sure, yeah. It\u2019s something we spend a lot of time researching \u2013 obviously with our members and with the customers that we talk with \u2013 to see really what performs best around those job posts. And you know, a couple of things that jump out to me, again, from the research and from what we see from our customers: shorter and more specific does tend to perform better across the board. So, you know, a five-page job posting \u2013 would not recommend.<\/em> It\u2019s too much for <\/em>candidates to look at. So, being more concise and really be, as I mentioned before, being specific about the role and the function is really what tends to perform best. <\/em><\/p>\nA few other best practices we see when we talk with customers and the leading organizations we work with share with us is: don\u2019t limit yourself too much in terms of the requirements. This is something that, I think, we are talking a lot about with customers right now. As you look at the requirements for a job or the preferred qualifications, you know, really challenge yourself as an organization to say, \u201care those necessary?\u201d <\/em>Common examples that come up are the number of years of experience in a role or having an MBA or things like that which, you know, I think a lot of organizations are finding may limit the candidate pool in ways that\u2019s not necessarily reflective of what\u2019s needed as an organization. So, we definitely encourage companies to think about that in terms of getting down to the basics of what\u2019s really required for somebody to be successful in the role. <\/em><\/p>\nAnd the other area that then helps is really thinking about diversity of the candidates, which is a topic that is top of mind for companies around the world. Really making sure that the language in the job post doesn\u2019t, in some unconscious way or some unintended way, limit the candidates that would be interested or applying.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> Yeah, because the thing is, if you have something that\u2019s so long winded and extensive, not only will potential applicants get bored very quickly just reading through it, but if there\u2019s very specific things that aren\u2019t necessarily relevant to the role or aren\u2019t absolutely necessary to include, then that could turn a potential amazing candidate off and you might end up losing some really important talent or somebody that could bring significant value to your team.<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> Yeah, that\u2019s exactly right. I mean, from again, from this recent research report, when we look at the parts of the job description that are most important, as we look at heat maps of what candidates for jobs are looking at, compensation comes up to the top of the list, which I think is a bit controversial. Sometimes people have said, \u201cyou know, compensation shouldn\u2019t be part of a job posting,\u201d but we see that\u2019s something that, you know, when companies share \u2013 not necessarily the specific compensation, but the ranges, at least, and get into the perks and the different things that come along with that \u2013 it\u2019s what candidates are looking for, really, it\u2019s one of the most important things. And then getting into qualifications and the job details and the performance goals really stacks high in terms of what our members tell us is important to them.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> It\u2019s very true, you know, you see that quite often where a lot of companies are hesitant to share those details, the compensation and benefits. Why do you think that is?<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> I think we\u2019re entering an era, broadly, within talent, but really worldwide, of just more transparency. Historically, I think organizations, in many ways, had the upper hand with candidates or potential employees, of having all the information. Or, I\u2019ll say there was an information asymmetry. Candidates and people looking for jobs had a certain set of information and companies had another set of information. And I think, you know, for a long time the standard was, well, everyone holds that information close to the chest and doesn\u2019t necessarily share it. What we\u2019re seeing more and more is that transparency is increasing. So, individual candidates can go in and evaluate different companies. They can get to know companies before they work there, from different review sites, getting to know the company brand, etcetera. And part of that is then having that transparency in salary. So, we see a lot of the organizations we work with starting to share a lot more of that detail in terms of salary and perks and company culture, and those elements that really differentiate company-to-company. Because I think just today the reality is there is a lot more information available and companies that try to obfuscate or not share that are operating in a disadvantage in many ways.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> Absolutely. Especially in this day and age where social media plays a big part in all the information that\u2019s literally at our fingertips, as this generation now, we just want to know as much as we can. <\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> And I think, in our view at LinkedIn and what we hear from our customers, is the end result ends up being much better, right? I often equate talent conversations and talent people decisions around hiring \u2013 it\u2019s often like dating or getting into a relationship. There\u2019s the right person for everyone, but you know, no two people are going to necessarily be attracted to the same exact elements, right? So, you know, we often hear the question, \u201cwhat\u2019s the perfect company profile?\u201d or \u201cwhat\u2019s the perfect way to stand out or establish yourself?\u201d and there\u2019s obviously some, you know, general recommendations of things, patterns that we see, but in so many ways, each company and, really, each team within a company ends up being very unique. And I think the more, especially today, that you can share that and help people understand what it is that makes your team special or your company special, it\u2019s going to create a better match then and, ultimately, hopefully people that can contribute more to your organization deliver more value for your company and ideally stay with your company for a longer tenure because it\u2019s a great fit for them. <\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> Definitely. I love that analogy, comparing it to dating, because it is similar in so many ways. I\u2019ve read quite a bit about that, too, it\u2019s very interesting. What information, then, do you suggest is critical to collect at the very early stages?<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> I think this is really dependent company-to-company, and we see a lot of different things and different patterns, from companies we work with, as well as our own practices here at LinkedIn, when I\u2019m hiring for my team or we\u2019re hiring broadly at LinkedIn. I think the really important thing with this is making sure that the candidate has a great experience. Again, today in the world of social media, in the world of transparency, you know, everyone is an influencer. Everyone has that voice. In terms of the information you are collecting from a candidate, make sure that it\u2019s information that is relevant. Make sure it\u2019s information that\u2019s needed, that\u2019s going to help advance the decision, and not just, you know, \u201cfill out these 400 forms fields to give us every piece of information that you have,\u201d because that\u2019s probably not going to create a good experience for that candidate. And if he or she then talks about that with their peers or with other people, it obviously doesn\u2019t help your company. So, I think just really being tactical in terms of what\u2019s needed and what\u2019s going to help make that informed decision about the candidate \u2013 again, it\u2019s dependent company-to-company \u2013 but, I would definitely encourage people to think about that. <\/em><\/p>\nNow, there\u2019s definitely some countries that we operate in and some specific fields where there are just some requirements, right? If you say, you know, you need security clearance for this role, or you need a certain visa status for this role \u2013 those types of things, I think, it\u2019s helpful to get out of the way as soon as possible, just so that you don\u2019t end up with a pool of candidates that are going to be disqualified as some point in the process because they don\u2019t have those basic mandatory requirements. So, I think those types of things, you know, we always encourage, even at the level of job posting. And with LinkedIn, when you post jobs, you can add some of those required fields that people, as they are applying, they basically have to indicate do they have whatever that eligible criteria is, and that just helps them, you know, reduce the pool of candidates that you\u2019re going have to turn down at some point, unfortunately.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> So now, what\u2019s your take on prospecting candidates for a job? Do you have any best practices that you could suggest for that?<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> Absolutely, yeah. Another area again we spend a lot of time on, in terms of researching what works. The fascinating thing about this is that the majority of people are actually open to new opportunities. So, historically we have talked about this as kind of the idea of active and passive candidates. Active candidates are people that are actively seeking out a job. So, they\u2019re going to a job listing site, a job board, they\u2019re going through the application process. Whereas passive candidates are people that are in a role, they are not on job boards, not actively looking for new opportunities, but what we see is those people, overwhelmingly, for the right opportunity, are open to those conversations. So, you know, this is something that obviously LinkedIn pioneered and it really, I think in many ways, changed the industry on in terms of being able to connect with people, professionals, as they are going about with their career. Not just when they\u2019re researching the company or when they are applying for a job, but as they just continue their professional development in terms of learning, in terms of engaging with content, in terms of connecting with other peers within their network, and then be able to find those people in a very targeted way. So, being able to understand the skills that you are looking for, the exact professional qualifications that you are looking for, and then to be able to reach out. <\/em><\/p>\nAnd the biggest thing that we see here, right, in terms of effectiveness with prospecting, and, again, the analogy is very similar to marketing, is really make it personalized. Organizations that use email or phone or InMail, or different outreach mechanisms, and they just send a bulk email to a thousand people, like, \u201chi, I want talk to you about my company\u201d \u2013 the response rates, as you would imagine, are incredibly, incredibly low. So, as we talk to recruiters and talk to sources and hear what\u2019s working and, as well as encourage them based on the best practices that we see, we always say, get as personalized as possible. Make it an authentic connection where there\u2019s something that stood out about that great woman or man that you\u2019re reaching out to that you want to engage on. Try and get to know the person through their profile, through the information you have available to them, and then try and make that connection because, if it is more personalized, the chances of people responding are significantly better than, again, if you are just doing kind of a bulk outreach to thousands of people at a single time.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> It\u2019s interesting because it really goes back to the whole marketing thing. Even with marketing, when you feel like you\u2019re being reached on a personal level and you\u2019re being approached in a genuine way, it makes all the difference.<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> Absolutely.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> Rather than feeling, like, \u201coh, I\u2019m just a number\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m just one in a million, they don\u2019t really care what I think,\u201d when it feels like somebody is actually making an effort to care and to connect with you, you know then that makes, you know, me want to care and connect with that person.<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> Absolutely, and I think it\u2019s a great point that you touched on and something else that we talk with people about often is, you know, ideally your first touch point with the potential candidate is not an InMail to them or phone call or an email reach out. Ideally, they are already aware of your company.<\/em> Ideally, they are already aware of the types of roles you hire for. So, if you\u2019ve really been doing that brand building over time with your target candidate pools, then the response rates go up astronomically. We see massive increases in terms of response rates, well, for what we refer to as, \u201cwarm candidates\u201d versus \u201ccold candidates.\u201d Which, again, is very obvious to any marketers listening to this, which makes a ton of rational sense and sounds kind of obvious as I say it, but I think, too often in the recruiting industry, unfortunately, it was kind of the \u201cspray and pray\u201d-type model where, you know, people would just reach out in bulk to candidates and not really have that detailed information to make it personalized. And oftentimes this is the first time that a passive candidate has heard about a company, so, as you can imagine, response rates to those types that have outreach end up being incredibly low. And, for recruiters, that just leads to a lot of inefficiency. <\/em><\/p>\nWithin the recruiting world, it\u2019s about people, first and foremost. But, you know, something we talk about all the time and hear from our best customers is \u201cyou want to be able to be as efficient as possible,\u201d and I think efficiency sometimes translates into, \u201coh, is that cold and machine-like?\u201d and the answer is no. It just means that you\u2019re then able to focus more on the people part of the conversation. You\u2019re not spending all day just sending out bulk emails, you\u2019re sending out those few targeted outreaches. So, you can then make those personal connections and really get to know the person, to understand if they\u2019d be a great culture add for your organization or be able to help your organization achieve the results that you are looking for.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> And that\u2019s sort of going about it in a more respectful way, as well.<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> Absolutely. <\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> So, we\u2019ve got a compelling job post, we have a ton of applicants, and we\u2019ve prospected some really good ones. Now we have a big stack of job applications. Can you share some techniques for effectively weeding out the bad applicants and finding the right candidates to move through to the next phase?<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> I\u2019d say it\u2019s a good problem to have, obviously. You want to see that pipeline of candidates coming in, but it\u2019s also a major challenge, right? And especially for organizations that have very popular brands or very hot jobs that are being sought after. You want to make sure you can, again, quickly weed through those, quickly get to the candidates that are most likely to respond. And I think a lot of that, again, a lot of it starts from before you even get that application. Making sure that the people that are applying, they know about your company and they understand who you are as a company, they understand what you stand for, they understand your values. That helps a ton, just in terms of acting as a pre-screen for candidates. Ideally, in an organization, you want quality over quantity. You want people that know your organization, that are likely to respond, or likely to be a great value add for your organization, versus just a pile of resumes or just that collection of noise. <\/em><\/p>\nOnce you have those resumes, then there\u2019s a lot of different services and techniques to be able to go through and call those down. But one of the biggest things to be said is get the whole team involved. It\u2019s something that I do when I\u2019m hiring here at LinkedIn. I want to make sure that the cross functional partners that the team is working with are also involved in the process. And that could be even at the early stages of screening, because while we work with an amazing recruiting team here at LinkedIn who does a lot of pre-screening and a lot of validation, it\u2019s super helpful just to partner with them closely and help to go through those great applications, because you also sometimes spot things that, you know \u2013 we\u2019re all human, right? D<\/u>ifferent people may spot things that stand out, so I\u2019d say make it a team sport. That helps as well.<\/em><\/p>\nYS:<\/em><\/strong> Absolutely. There\u2019s so much value in asking for your coworkers\u2019 opinions, for outside opinions. Having a second set of eyes or a third set of eyes or a fourth set of eyes, you know, people see different things and people may pick up on different things.<\/em><\/p>\nBB:<\/em><\/strong> Exactly. Exactly.<\/em><\/p>\n
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